Username: Stay Logged In
 
Password:  

Add Beeunique on Social Media...

Beeunique Facebook Beeunique Pinterest Beeunique Google+ Beeunique TwitterBeeunique YoutubeBeeunique Instagram

NOTE: Beeunique ship worldwide - including USA & Canada

Author Topic: Koleston Experts! Going from 6 to 9 w/o bleach; avoiding brass. help on tones?  (Read 418 times)  Share 

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Current Colour: brown (5-6)
  • Location: Portland OR USA
Hi!


I have virgin neutral 5-6 hair, and am ready to go lighter again. Caveat: I am totally broke and need to DIY.


I've done a lot of research and spoken w/ my great stylist about this. She uses Joico and Goldwell, but I've kind of determined that Koleston Perfect might be the best DIY option, assuming you know what you're doing (right?). The reviews are awesome, and after a lot of research I finally understand the basics of this system. So pretty stuck on Koleston (although if someone can spell out a good option with Goldwell or another high quality product, please feel free!).


Here's my issues:


  • Above all, I don't want to have to use bleach. I'd like the easiest maintenance possible.
  • My color is really between a 5 and 6--my stylist says probably smack in the middle, maybe leaning toward 6 (see pics of me in light and inside). But my understanding is that Koleston runs a shade dark; looking at the Koleston swatches, I'm definitely a 6 in that system--maybe even a 7 (take a look at the clip attached, from their materials). I've decided that if I'm going to use Koleston and it has this difference in depth built into the system, I'm just going to convert everything to Koleston values and use those. I think that's easiest.
  • I'd like to go to about an 8 (9 in Koleston), so if I'm a Koleston 6 and want to go to a Koleston 9, that's 3 shades, and I'll need to use a 40 developer. I know a lot of stylists caution against this, and understand why, but also understand the application instructions (not full time on roots etc.) and think it will be ok. 40 vol is there for a reason, right? :) Plus, I have a short pixie and worse comes to worst, I shave my head. Always wanted to! BUT I have fine hair too... If this is a totally idiotic idea, even if done w/ due care/on virgin hair, please let me know and I'll think about an 8. OR if I'm wrong and a Koleston 9 **will** be a true 9, let me know that, and I can scale back to an 8.
  • Given that I don't want to use bleach, I need to avoid the dread blorange. This is the focus of my question--which shade to pick, the best tone(s) to neutralize brassiness.
  • There are tons of color wheels out there, but again, since I'm using Koleston and it has some depth differences (at least), I'm referring to their materials.

    If I'm a 6, I need to neutralize orange; ergo, go with blue. That would be a Pearl (/8--blue) or possibly Ash (/1--blue/green).This is where I'd really, really appreciate some insights from those with hands on experience with shades. I am attaching a collage of swatches I'm considering, all listed below (please take a look):

    • 9/1 (blue/green)--safest?
    • 9/11 (super blue/green)--see qq below
    • 9/8 (pearl/blue)--what are pearls meant to do? cendres (blue/violet /9)? see qq below
    There are also these shades:

    • 9/17 (blue/green-ash/brown)
    • 9/81 (pearl/blue-blue/green): this is a new shade that is really a specialty one, and I think I'm ruling it out just because it is so gray... looking for something more natural)
    • 9/38 (gold (!)/pearl-blue)
  • And one lady on Makeup Alley who has used Koleston for years highly suggests using /2 (matt/green) instead--specifically, 8/2. But I think that her rec might be based on her own experience rather than generalizing to my situation (her hair is darker so a green would work), but I'm not sure.

    So some questions:
    • What is the difference, generally, between the purpose of pearl (blue) and ash shades in terms of neutralizing blo-range? It looks like the pearls are **much** more pronounced silver tones than the ash. I can't really find much of a discussion of this anywhere... Personally, I would like it to be a warmer/neutral blonde, so I'm leaning toward the ash rather than pearl, but are the pearls designed to neutralize orange tones and therefore a better choice? I just don't want straight up silver--ash is fine, but I don't want to look like a corpse w/o makeup :) .
    • In Koleston, are double tone #s (like 9/11) meant for color resistant gray? I think I read that somewhere, but I wanted to confirm. Would this be a better option than 8/1 to make sure I don't have orange breakthrough? Or would it just make my hair green lol?
    • [size=78%]Does anyone have any experience w/ 9/38 or 9/17? I love the color swatches, but the major tone listed is gold in 9/38. I'm crossing my fingers that the intent of this particular color is designed to neutralize orange but preserve a warmer, natural shade. Has anyone used it? Could it work? What about 9/17? It's similarly warmer, but I believe that 7 (brown) is considered neutral/cool, so it might be safer?[/size]
    [size=78%]So if I were to do this today, I'd probably go w/ 9/11 or 9/1 in a 40 vol 1:1 mix, no heat, to lengths/ends for 10 min; then apply to roots as well and let sit for another 30-40 min. Is there anything I should be aware of in terms of application? I know applying to virgin hair will be a lot easier, but other than making sure the ratios are perfect, should I, for instance, lean toward a shorter development time or longer?


    Thanks for humoring me with this VERY long ask. I totally appreciate it. If someone can help out and really knows Wella, I might just put you on paid retainer--I hope that's ok to offer, but help w/ this really is a godsend. I'm disabled and just can't afford color at the salon.[/size]
 

  • Junior Hair Addict
  • **
  • Posts: 71
  • Thanked: 20 times
Hi I got a notification for your PM. I am happy to answer and help if I can. Let me know if I missed something.

I don't think that Koleston runs a whole shade darker, but since ash tones are not as bright as warm tones they will always look darker in the same lighting. You can go from a level 6 to level 8/9 without bleach as long as a neutral result or more golden tone is fine.

The 40vol will only blow out the hair faster and might even reveal more brass, I would only use 40vol with highlifts.

Wella ash:
/1 ash, doesn't tone it darkens existing tones
/6 violet, tones away yellow
/8 pearl, blue ash tones away orange
/9 cendre, blue/violet, tones away yellow and orange

When you are lifting from a 6 you are going from an orange-yellow undertone to yellow, so you should use /6, /8, or /9.

If you haven't bought the colours yet, for a first try, I would use 30 vol with either Wella Illumina 8/69 or Koleston 8/96. I prefer Illumina, the colours are cooler and shiny. You'll be better off with an 8 than a 9 as there is more pigment to neutralise the orange-yellow undertones. If you did want to use a level 9 still, there is Illumina 9/60 or 9/8.

Everyone's hair lifts differently. If you can strand test, great, if not then you will have to make a decision and  adjust for the next time.
 
The following users thanked this post: anoukaimee

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Current Colour: brown (5-6)
  • Location: Portland OR USA
Thank you SO MUCH. For some reason I totally overlooked Illumina; I thought it was demi or something. I've been reading up on it though  for the past  half hour or so  and everyone raves about it though.  And I just saw a pic of 8/69 and it is freaking gorgeous, I'm so in!

To be honest, I was getting a little nervous about the 40 developer. I think you're right... Well obviously you are, right? :) better to start out slow. And no I haven't bought color yet and I'll definitely do a strand test.

So you're suggesting a 30 developer with the Illumina 8/69? I'm really more of a 5.5 on the regular scale--I think, and just to be safe. 

And I'd honestly rather be neutral than totally ash, just in case I look really washed out. I haven't gone blonde in decades; it always worked well (in terms of being flattering, tho could never get the tone right with box of course), but I'm 43 now so want to make sure.

Also... is there a back up toner, Wella or otherwise, you'd recommend to keep on hand in case the color is still too warm - - or just get a purple shampoo? Just want to be prepared.

BLESS YOU! 😊😋😄😍 you really made my day.
 

  • Junior Hair Addict
  • **
  • Posts: 71
  • Thanked: 20 times
You are welcome!

If it was my own hair and I had your starting colour, yes I'd go with 30 volume developer and Illumina 8/69. When you strand test, if you find it too warm you could get some Illumina 7/81 and add it into the 8/69. This would cancel out warmth by adding more of the ash pigment. For a tube of 8/69, if you squeeze out a line of about 1-2 inches of the 7/81 into the mixture this should do.

Some people have good results with purple shampoo or toner rinses on top, they don't work that well for me though. If you try purple shampoo it helps to paint it onto dry hair then leave it in for 15+ minutes before washing it out.

If this doesn't leave your hair as light or ashy as you'd like it to be, then you would have to go for a high lift colour that bleaches and tones in one step, or a full bleach.
 

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Current Colour: brown (5-6)
  • Location: Portland OR USA
Wow, thanks again!


So really reading about Illumina, and it still sounds great but one reservation: the reason it is such a pretty, luminescent color is (to my understanding) that it is more "translucent." Does that mean that it might not be as effective in terms of lightening? I know it is the developer that does the heavy lifting with that, but is it as long lasting/effective in terms of penetration as KP? Was a little alarmed because someone on Sleekshop (bka Sleek Hair) who used it in a single process said it was even darker than KP--got me thinking that the translucence didn't give as much oomph in terms of lifting, if you know what I mean, compared with something more opaque/traditional like KP.


So I've got this dilemma... It isn't a biggie, just thought I'd ask. I still think I'm going to go w/ Illumina; the overwhelming majority of what I've read is really positive and, the color looks really pretty. But if you think at all that for a single process lifting KP might be more effective/easier, I could do that THEN try Illumina in the future.


Just let me know what you think when you can, HAIR GURU!! :)
 

  • Junior Hair Addict
  • **
  • Posts: 71
  • Thanked: 20 times
Translucency is more of an issue when it comes to grey coverage. Greys will be blended instead of having full coverage so you can only cover maybe hair that is 30% grey. The translucency and cooler tones make it a great toner though, so I've not seen so many comparisons of it being used for a single process.

It could well come out looking darker than KP, partly due to them being more ashy. Using a level 9 instead of an 8 would solve that. I wouldn't go for that for a first try though, you want the level 8 as there is more pigment to cancel out brass as I mentioned earlier.

I would still choose Illumina personally over KP since you are not covering a lot of grey. It's very difficult to tell of course without having tested it to see how your hair lifts so good luck for your first try, choose what you would like to use the most, and hopefully with some of our experience it's less trial and error for you to get the colour you want!
 
The following users thanked this post: anoukaimee

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Current Colour: brown (5-6)
  • Location: Portland OR USA
Thanks for the explanation on the gray; that makes sense. I guess I just have to do it! And I think it'll be better in the sense that it is more ash.


Buying now--will PM u to let u know how it went.


Really appreciate all of your help, you have no idea!
 

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Current Colour: brown (5-6)
  • Location: Portland OR USA
Hi:


Just wanted to let you know how the strand test went: used the Illumina 8/69 with vol 30, and it hardly lightened at all! :(  Maybe a really light 6?


I'm thinking about trying a high lift but a little worried cuz I know not supposed to use on base colors below 6, and I'm something like a 5.5. Do you have an opinion about this--whether it would be good to try? Also, though most people say to use w/ 40 vol (I think that's pretty much standard), I've seen some convos between stylists on behindthechair and other sites that recommend 30 vol.
 

  • *
  • Posts: 4176
  • Thanked: 420 times
    • Janine Basil Pop Accessories
  • Location: Manchester
Did you keep the strand test warm? It needs to be kept warm or it won't work. It normally has the heat of the body/head to keep it warm.
New Here?  Please read the Forum Rules before posting. *rules*
Please click the *heart* button on the top line if a post is helpful to you.
 
The following users thanked this post: anoukaimee

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Current Colour: brown (5-6)
  • Location: Portland OR USA
no, I didn't know that! read a tutorial on doing strand tests but might've missed that.


i'll do again and report back. huh, thanks!
 

  • *
  • Posts: 4176
  • Thanked: 420 times
    • Janine Basil Pop Accessories
  • Location: Manchester
Not all tutorials end up mentioning it! Don't let it be too hot though. I've wrapped them in tin foil and put them in a pocket before.
New Here?  Please read the Forum Rules before posting. *rules*
Please click the *heart* button on the top line if a post is helpful to you.
 
The following users thanked this post: anoukaimee

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Current Colour: brown (5-6)
  • Location: Portland OR USA
Hey Janineb! That was it! I put the plastic bowl on my radiator (ahem) and heated it up for a few seconds with my hair dryer every 10 min or so. Got a nice ash, a little darker than I'd like (but that's Wella, right?), but a good ash.


Thanks so much! Man, wasted so much time trying to figure out WTF was going on :).


You're a goddess! :)
 

  • *
  • Posts: 4176
  • Thanked: 420 times
    • Janine Basil Pop Accessories
  • Location: Manchester
I'm glad it worked :) It's the most common mistake to be honest! It's not obvious unless you understand how the heat of the head affects it. I'm not a hairdresser, but I did some hairdressing training before realising it was NOT going to work for me, so I have a head start! :)
New Here?  Please read the Forum Rules before posting. *rules*
Please click the *heart* button on the top line if a post is helpful to you.
 
The following users thanked this post: anoukaimee

 

There was an error while thanking
Thanking...
The Hair Dye Forum uses cookies, please click here for more informations
Created & Maintained by Beeunique © 2009-2018

Alternative Hair Dyes and Accessories